After discussing theme in class, provide the theme that your group developed through close analysis of the text and your plot map. Then, defend your theme. Why does this theme make sense for the novel? How does this theme relate to the contemporary American lifestyle?
Lying and pretending excessively causes someone to believe their own falseness. In this novel, John lies constantly to himself in order to trick his mind and his memory into what actually happened with various situations. Magic is all pretend, which early on set the stage that everything can just be turned into something different. For example, when he killed Weatherby in Vietnam, “This could not have happened. Therefore it did not. Already he felt better” (109). By lying to himself and pretending nothing was wrong throughout the story, John was able to convince himself that he is not in the wrong and that his life is ok. If it is the case that John killed Kathy, he is pretending he didn’t and believes it. Today, most people do the same. Maybe not as extreme, but most people tend to lie to make things easier. If you say a lie enough you will soon believe it. People like to find an easy way out of things, whether it be owning up to something they did or just in general. Lying and pretending is the easiest way to get out of things. But is it really? When your lies are caught up, it can really ruin things for you. For example, I believe the cause for John Wade’s failed election was that something about him killing Weatherby got out and people got scared. On page 154, Tony says, “‘There’s any snot up your nose, somebody’ll dig it out and squish the stuff right up against your forehead.” Do you agree with Tony?
ReplyDeleteI do agree with Tony, in spite of him being right. Today we have favorite celebrities and everyone always finds out everything about them and everything that they have done. That is in the same way with John, he became known among his people and others probably started to research and watch him. There is a way that anyone can find out information about you if you are known. I agree with you as well when you say that you think the fact that John killed Weatherby got out because the book kind of states to us that he lost due to something he did, the only really bad things he has done that we know about is him killing Weatherby.
DeleteI agree with all you've said. When Pat and John were on a walk, Pat tells John, "'One day she wakes up, sees all that creepiness splashed across the front page. Finds out she's hooked up with a war criminal" (185). I wonder why she hadn't just left then if it bothered her so much. Or she could've at least mentioned it to him for him to explain. I feel like this is one of the strongest things she holds against him.
DeleteI feel like John knows he has something wrong with him he just doesn't wanna believe it as we have said multiple times. Kathy was the only one that knew how to keep John in sync with everything she was his rock and losing her would drive John into a further mental state to the point where he can't get out of it.
DeleteMental disorders are a big issue today, just like they were in the past. In life many people have mental disorders and that can affect them in many ways, although it may make somebody act different no one should be treated differently because of that. In the book we can clearly see that John Wade has something going on mentally. He always goes into flashbacks and he does weird things. The book stated that he used to stalk Kathy all throughout college, or that he used to talk to his dad who is dead. John possibly has PTSD from the war he fought in, or it could just be from all of the suffering he has faced. As stated in the book, “There were times when John Wade wanted to open up Kathy’s belly and crawl inside and stay there forever. He wanted to swim through her blood and climb up and down her spine and drink from her ovaries and press his gums against the firm red muscle of her heart” (71). With this quote you can clearly see that something is wrong with John. Normal husbands/boyfriends do not wish to climb into their lovers body and basically eat the person from the inside. Throughout the book John has moments where he freaks out and has weird attacks. One time he went around his living room burning all his plants and saying ‘kill jesus’ over and over. His wife seems to walk on glass around him, she knows how he has acted. Before she went missing she knew to never talk about the election or ask him about his secrets because he would freak out. The more that John keeps inside the worse his thoughts get and the worse he becomes. This is similar to people in normal American life style. People with mental disorders can not act normal, they do things other people normally wouldn’t. They have thoughts that may scare someone else. There are so many people who have mental disorders but in no way shape or form does that mean they should be treated differently. In the book Kathy treats John differently and if anything that makes him worse. People need to treat others who have these kinds of disorders the same way they would treat any other person. In the end that helps them more and maybe they can open up and slowly become better. Overall mental disorders is something a lot of people get, they can’t be stopped from happening, but they can go away if someone gets the right help.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that John had some sort of a mental disorder. He was definitely unstable and needed help, but he had also refused and that is on him. I don't necessarily think Kathy is too in the wrong for his problems because she did mention once about seeing a psychiatrist but he declined, which is essentially his choice. She's not totally clean though either. Both of them needed to be able to communicate with each other in order to have a healthy relationship, but I think neither of them were necessarily stable enough to maintain a healthy relationship. I do think mental disorders and instability are themes in this book for sure and are pretty prominent in our daily lives too.
DeleteI never even thought about Kathy's issues when writing this, now thinking about it I realize that since they both have issues not talking helps them, but yet still affects them. It helps them because they do not have to open up, but hurts them because they bottle it all up and have way to many secrets. I agree that they both need to communicate with each other to have a healthy relationship, maybe that is another factor to Kathy leaving.
DeleteI think your right i feel like no one wants to show remorse for John and what he goes through they kinda just go ahead and try to throw the blame on him for Kathy's disappearance which isn't right knowing the mental state that John is in as of right now.
DeleteI think the theme for this book is Loss/Heartbreak many times does John go through the point in his life where he loses something and eventually it gets to the point where John can’t handle losing anything again. Then here comes the election which is a breaking point probably the most power point in the book proven this loss drove John absolutely insane. From talking to his imaginary father or burning plants with hot water John has became a burden to everyone around which is basically just Kathy and maybe she knew that if she left John would fall apart immediately by not being able to control himself such as random as the outburst John has frequently when he doesn’t really like the idea of something.
ReplyDeleteOur group decided on the theme, "It is easy to deny the past, but acceptance is the only way to move forward". John lives a life built on lies because he cannot accept reality, but he doesn't just lie to others but to himself as well. He denies that his father died, he denies what happened in Vietnam, and he denies the poor state of his relationship with his wife. "John Wade would remember Thuan Yen the way chemical nightmares are remembered, impossible combinations, impossible events, and over time the impossibility itself would become the richest and deepest and most profound memory" (109). John denies the past because it is too hard to accept it. I have a prediction that the book will end with John accepting the past and being able to move forward.
ReplyDeleteYeah I guess you could really say that John lives a life full of lies. I've never really considered it that way, but the fact that John had to convince himself that he did not kill PFC Weatherby, really explains how he is unable to cope with devastating events coming his way.
DeleteThe Theme that our group came up with the theme it's easy to deny the past but acceptance is the only way to move forward. This theme describes the story because John faces many struggles in the book and tries to deny the fact that they even happened at all. Through doing this he is only hurting himself more by not learning to accept and move forward. Because he does not accept traumatic events that happen he is not able to learn and take something away from those moments. Instead he simply carries the emotions of those moments with him.
ReplyDeleteIt is easy to deny the events of the past, but acceptance is the only way to move forward. The book so far has expressed how the lack of John’s acceptance has only made things worse for him and his marriage. John lost his father at age 14, and little did many people know, that moment in time will affect John for the rest of his life. John’s mother Eleanor Wade said in the book: “I told you how secretive he was--you never knew what he was thinking--and it just got worse when his father hanged himself.” (Tim O’Brien 194.) The loss of John’s father to John was horrific, John loved his father very much, and things only got worse for John, because the fear of losing someone increased. I can relate to John a little because I have a dog I love a lot, and one day we were walking back from playing fetch in a field, and out of nowhere a huge dump truck nearly ran the little guy over, the truck was less than a foot from him. So every time I’m with my dog, I have the little fear that someday I could lose him. The loss of John’s father has really affected the plot, because now John has to worry about losing Kathy, the possibility is there for she might have died, or she might have left him, but as of right now John is not with her and his anxiety is showing. The constant drinks, the quick to anger, John is going through a serious rough patch. But this is not the first time something like this has happened. The book says: “John never accepted it. I’d hear him in his room at night, he’d be having these make-believe conversations with his father.” (Tim O’Brien 197.) This was said by Eleanor Wade, the author included these two quotes to really emphasize the fact that John has had troubles accepting sadness in the past, and this could really unravel the possibilities for John’s future. This can relate to the American family lifestyle for there are many people in America that have to deal with a loss of a family member everyday. And some people turn to drinking or drugs to escape what is happening, but the best way to move on is to accept what has happened, and find new happiness. My prediction is that Kathy is going to be dead, but John will never find her body, and he will have to accept the fact that nobody knows what happened to her, and he will never be able to do the things they put off for later. My question for you guys, is do you think John will be able to accept the possible loss of his wife?
ReplyDeleteI think that the theme of this book is acceptance. Throughout the book, John has struggled his whole life with not being able to accept the events of his past. First with the death of Johns dad. His dad died when he was only fourteen and since then, he was never really able to accept the fact that he was gone. One example is, "late at night, in bed, he'd cradle his pillow and pretend it was his father, feeling the closeness. 'Don't be dead,' he'd say" (O'Brien 14). Another example of not being able to accept his past is after his time in Vietnam. John even got to the point where he told himself if he could convince himself that he never did anything. This all supports the theme of acceptance. John will never be able to move forward in life and with Kathy if he never moves on from his past.
ReplyDeleteI can totally agree with you man, the fact that John is constantly worried about where Kathy is and what Kathy is doing, is much related to how he treated the loss of his dad. It is really sad to see that he was unable to accept the loss of his dad, and that is really spilling over to how he is reacting towards the vanishing of his wife, through the drinking and the constant flashbacks and memories with her.
ReplyDeleteThe Theme that our group came up with the theme it's easy to deny the past but acceptance is the only way to move forward. This theme describes the story because John faces many struggles in the book and tries to deny the fact that they even happened at all. Through doing this he is only hurting himself more by not learning to accept and move forward. Because he does not accept traumatic events that happen he is not able to learn and take something away from those moments. Instead he simply carries the emotions of those moments with him.
ReplyDelete