Which character in your novel do you identify with the closest, or which character do you have the hardest time identifying with? How does this influence your reading? What characterization led you to this conclusion?
Personally I have a really hard time identifying with John. He is so different and all over the place. He is always pretending. He is so lost without his dad, then losing the election and now losing Kathy. The way the author portrays John confuses me in a way because the way John pretends so much makes me think, ‘is Kathy really real?’ or ‘did John make Kathy disappear?’ Johns mind is all over the place which makes him harder to identify with. According to O’Brien, “Pretending, of course-- he understood that-- but he felt calm and safe with the big mirror behind his eyes, where he could slide away behind the glass, where he could turn bad things into good things and just be happy” (65-66). When the author has John pretending about the mirror it makes me feel iffy about John because he is so involved in magic. Who says that is not how Kathy vanished, from his magic? I predict that John is going to end up realizing that he made Kathy disappear because at night he gets in moods where he goes on a rage and in the morning he doesn’t remember everything. So basically one night he probably did something to her but doesn’t remember. Overall this influences my reading by making me focus on John more and think about who he really is. Which is better because in the end I will know him as a character better, which will probably help me figure out what happened to Kathy.
I agree that it's hard to identify with John. His reactions in general are so out there and abnormal. I think your prediction about how he may have made Kathy disappear could be accurate because of his scattered mind and super strange behavior that night. Do you think his memory would be affected by the trauma of the night? Or, do you think his memory would be fine since he remembers basically everything else that's gone on (such as every detail from stalking Kathy)?
I think that his memory is truly messed up from the war. He remembers what he has seen with Kathy because he stalked her over and over for years, but with those nights he does the thing once then moves on. I do not think that how he stalked Kathy influences how he can not remember a night, but I do see where you are coming from. Overall how do we really know that he has not acted out nights before, but does not remember them. I feel like John has such a scattered brain like you said so it influences the way he remembers and thinks about things.
I feel like your thoughts on weather or not the whole book is kinda just messing with are head by throwing out so many different solutions towards everything that has happened so far with the disappearance of Kathy or with the reality maybe she's not even real maybe John is living alone in the woods and he substituted Kathy as not being there like he does with his father.
I also agree that it is difficult to relate to John. His personality is very sporadic and unpredictable, which I believe is strongly impart to his rough childhood and time in the war. I think the author is trying to be sort of vague with the characters so that it’s harder for us to figure out the whole mystery. I also think that if anything, the author is trying to lead us to believe that John is behind Kathy’s disappearance which makes me wonder if that’s just a way to trick us and that maybe John is the complete opposite of what he’s made out to be.
I am able to identify with Kathy way more than with John because if the hypothesis (Chapter 9) is what actually happened, I would take her side and I feel her supposed reasoning for leaving is justifiable. John’s actions with the teakettle and the yelling would have certainly thrown me off as well. Kathy felt conflicted because she knew she loved him but everything that had happened with their history was just enough. For example, “This was not the man she’d known, or thought she’d known. She had loved him extravagantly--the kind of love she’d always wanted--but more and more it was like living with a stranger” (54). While I read this hypothesis I felt not only sorry for her but also encouraging towards her decision to leave and really see her side of who John is. So far, this hypothesis seems pretty accurate. I think the failed election is what essentially blew her over the top solely because of John’s reaction to the failure. How do you feel about Kathy if this hypothesis were to be true? Would you agree with her reason to leave?
I agree with everything that you are saying here, but I do not believe that this actually happened. Partly because the evidence part (chapter 2) it states that people have not heard from her. I do not think that she would lose contact from everyone she has known. I feel like the hypothesis is something that John came up with himself to calm his mind on the fact that Kathy is gone. In answer to your questions I feel that (if the hypothesis is true) that Kathy had every right to leave because of who John has become, but what Kathy has not realized is that John has always been this way. He stalked her for the longest time. I do agree with her reason to leave, but if it is the case and that is why she left, why did she not leave earlier? John has been acting this way for a while. Also if she loved him so much why did she not try to talk to him before she left. Basically I do see where you are coming from but I think that Kathy being gone is more than her just leaving. Something else has happened to her.
I feel like if Kathy really loved him she would have stayed with him knowing what he is going through by him losing the election, By her leaving it made him feel like his Dad all over again i feel like by dealing with the loss of Kathy the same way he did with his father. Maybe she told him she was gonna leave and he killed her cause he didn't want her to leave.
I feel like I’m closest with John because in the story he starts to struggle very badly with his flashbacks/PTSD. I’ve heard stories and seen movies where they describe the effects of it. Therefore i feel like i can relate to his well being better than any other character cause i know what John is going through isn’t easy. Nobody really tries to help cause he super secretive so he can’t get help which is common cause some people don’t wanna believe they have a problem.
I’m having trouble trying to figure out who Kathy really is as a person we know John was kinda obsessed with her by stalking her, But why would she eventually get with someone who used to stalk her? The story says she is super quiet and doesn’t really talk about stuff with people which makes me think Did Kathy plan to go missing to frame John and make everything look like he did? Or did John kill Kathy can’t really tell at this point.
I feel like the suspense of what happened to Kathy keeps me from closing the book because i wanna know weather John was possibly for this or if he wasn’t. Also by focusing in the text i can get create text evidence to support my claims.
I really haven’t came to a conclusion about the characterization of the characters because it’s still pretty early in the book to decide all of their personalities could change in just a page or 2
I don't think Kathy knew he had been stalking her. At least, not for a while. She has said things like, "You know, maybe I'm way off, but I get this creepy feeling. Like you're always there. Always worming around inside of me" (72). She has the gut feeling, but I disagree that she knew he was stalking her but agree that she wouldn't have married him if she had known for sure.
I don't know if I agree with that Kailey, I think that Kathy was just dropping hints, and trying to get John to realize he is freaking her out. The first thing Kathy said to John when he returned from war, was "sorry I was out" and that really sets the tone as if she knew he was waiting for her somewhere and as if he was waiting for the perfect moment to see her.
At this point in the book, while I don’t feel any of the characters are super relatable to myself, the one I could probably relate most to is Kathy Wade. Ever since the beginning, Kathy has been a very mysterious and vague person. The author has never really described much about her personality simply because then it makes it that much more difficult as a reader to figure out the whole mystery of this book. Even the other characters in the book don’t seem to truly know her. I just feel as though I can relate to her on this level because sometimes I think I can give off a more confusing vibe and people aren’t typically able to understand my personality that well, just like Kathy.
I personally feel like I don't identify with anyone in the novel specifically. John is very hard to Identify with because he has had so many different life experiences then I have. These life experiences are what makes John the way he is and do the things he does. He does so many things that I consider very strange almost to a point where I would consider him mentally handicapped. For example O’Brien states “At one point in the night he found himself completely submerged in the lake”(O'Brien 51). John walked off in the middle of the night and just walked into the lake. This influences the reader by leading the reader to question John's sanity. So is John insane? That's the question that the reader should look for the answer to later in the text.
I agree that it is very hard to identify with any of the characters in the novel and that they are all very different. I also agree that the different experiences that John has had has led him to become the person he is now. The experiences he has had definitely have had an impact on him and his mental health although I don't I would consider him mentally handicapped.
So far in this book I don't closely relate to either John or Kathy. They are both very confusing and unique characters that it is hard to relate to them. On one hand, John is dealing with his mental struggles from losing his dad and from the war and the effect they are having on his life. On the other hand, Kathy is having to deal with John and his problems while still living in the same, isolated way she likes to. John is a very confusing character to understand because of the ways he deals with his problems. For example when talking about what he did in the war he said "he tricked himself it hadn't happened the way it happened. He pretended he wasn't responsible; he pretended he couldn't have done it and therefore he hadn't" (O'Brien 68). This shows that John has a hard time dealing with his past and can't accept what hes done. I feel like Johns personality is the reason why Kathy is gone. I think that it was his personality that drove her away from him. I think that this will influence my reading because now i'm going to have to pay more attention to John and the reasons why he does what he does.
Why do you think it was John's personality that drove her away from him? Yes, John has done some weird things like spy on her, but from what I've read they have liked each others personality. The book says: "They'dance until they couldn't dance anymore, and then they'd sit in one of those dark booths and play a came called Dare." (Tim O'Brien.) The game they would play really opened up their relationship, and they would explore opportunities between each other. So I do not think it is John's personality that drove her away from him.
I personally would have to say I connect to John fairly well. The fact that he had such a big dream that he worked so hard for, is something I also have as well. John knew that if someone works really dang hard for something, eventually sooner or later they will get the paid off, but for John it did not end up that way. I have a dream to start or manage my own business someday, I want to make it big, but I understand that life does not always let the people who deserve it, win. I also feel connected to John in the way that he truly does care about Kathy, she means so much to him, even though he goes to lengths like spying on her to show that. One day before Kathy had left, John expressed his love for Kathy in a neat way, the book says: “With a ballpoint pen, he wrote on the instep of her tennis shoe: John + Kath. He drew a heart around these words and tied the shoe to her foot.” (Tim O’ Brien 60.) That right there tells me how much John really cares about Kathy and how much he loves to show it. The author adds this little piece in the story to really confuse the readers, because so far we have been lead to believe John is this crazy creepy guy, but I am starting to realize how much he really cares for her and everything he has ever done, was to make sure he did not lose her. That leads me to predict that in the end, I think John is going to find her, alive, and he is going to realize how much being in the moment with her means to him, and that the best things in life are not an act. That’s why I feel I connect with John, for he has such a strong love for Kathy, and I know I will sometimes go to lengths to make sure I do not lose the people I love. So do you guys think that John may just seem a little crazy, when in the end all he has ever tried to do was not lose Kathy?
I agree that John cares for Kathy a lot and that he has worked hard for what he has wanted. I also feel like because of the hard work that John has put in, it might have taken away time he could've been with Kathy and therefore made an impact on their relationship.
I find it easier to identify with John because his personality, thoughts, and beliefs are very vividly described, both directly and indirectly. In addition, I understand how it feels to want to keep some things secret to everyone but yourself and the desire to know things that are not told to you. However, John is very extreme in these beliefs and even wants to keep some things secret from himself by denying and suppressing memories of his past. I find it hard to relate to Kathy because I don't have experience being in a poor relationship with someone close to me, and it is hard to understand her beliefs because the actions that led to her disappearance are unknown.
Personally I have a really hard time identifying with John. He is so different and all over the place. He is always pretending. He is so lost without his dad, then losing the election and now losing Kathy. The way the author portrays John confuses me in a way because the way John pretends so much makes me think, ‘is Kathy really real?’ or ‘did John make Kathy disappear?’ Johns mind is all over the place which makes him harder to identify with. According to O’Brien, “Pretending, of course-- he understood that-- but he felt calm and safe with the big mirror behind his eyes, where he could slide away behind the glass, where he could turn bad things into good things and just be happy” (65-66). When the author has John pretending about the mirror it makes me feel iffy about John because he is so involved in magic. Who says that is not how Kathy vanished, from his magic? I predict that John is going to end up realizing that he made Kathy disappear because at night he gets in moods where he goes on a rage and in the morning he doesn’t remember everything. So basically one night he probably did something to her but doesn’t remember. Overall this influences my reading by making me focus on John more and think about who he really is. Which is better because in the end I will know him as a character better, which will probably help me figure out what happened to Kathy.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it's hard to identify with John. His reactions in general are so out there and abnormal. I think your prediction about how he may have made Kathy disappear could be accurate because of his scattered mind and super strange behavior that night. Do you think his memory would be affected by the trauma of the night? Or, do you think his memory would be fine since he remembers basically everything else that's gone on (such as every detail from stalking Kathy)?
DeleteI think that his memory is truly messed up from the war. He remembers what he has seen with Kathy because he stalked her over and over for years, but with those nights he does the thing once then moves on. I do not think that how he stalked Kathy influences how he can not remember a night, but I do see where you are coming from. Overall how do we really know that he has not acted out nights before, but does not remember them. I feel like John has such a scattered brain like you said so it influences the way he remembers and thinks about things.
DeleteI feel like your thoughts on weather or not the whole book is kinda just messing with are head by throwing out so many different solutions towards everything that has happened so far with the disappearance of Kathy or with the reality maybe she's not even real maybe John is living alone in the woods and he substituted Kathy as not being there like he does with his father.
DeleteI also agree that it is difficult to relate to John. His personality is very sporadic and unpredictable, which I believe is strongly impart to his rough childhood and time in the war. I think the author is trying to be sort of vague with the characters so that it’s harder for us to figure out the whole mystery. I also think that if anything, the author is trying to lead us to believe that John is behind Kathy’s disappearance which makes me wonder if that’s just a way to trick us and that maybe John is the complete opposite of what he’s made out to be.
DeleteI am able to identify with Kathy way more than with John because if the hypothesis (Chapter 9) is what actually happened, I would take her side and I feel her supposed reasoning for leaving is justifiable. John’s actions with the teakettle and the yelling would have certainly thrown me off as well. Kathy felt conflicted because she knew she loved him but everything that had happened with their history was just enough. For example, “This was not the man she’d known, or thought she’d known. She had loved him extravagantly--the kind of love she’d always wanted--but more and more it was like living with a stranger” (54). While I read this hypothesis I felt not only sorry for her but also encouraging towards her decision to leave and really see her side of who John is. So far, this hypothesis seems pretty accurate. I think the failed election is what essentially blew her over the top solely because of John’s reaction to the failure. How do you feel about Kathy if this hypothesis were to be true? Would you agree with her reason to leave?
ReplyDeleteI agree with everything that you are saying here, but I do not believe that this actually happened. Partly because the evidence part (chapter 2) it states that people have not heard from her. I do not think that she would lose contact from everyone she has known. I feel like the hypothesis is something that John came up with himself to calm his mind on the fact that Kathy is gone. In answer to your questions I feel that (if the hypothesis is true) that Kathy had every right to leave because of who John has become, but what Kathy has not realized is that John has always been this way. He stalked her for the longest time. I do agree with her reason to leave, but if it is the case and that is why she left, why did she not leave earlier? John has been acting this way for a while. Also if she loved him so much why did she not try to talk to him before she left. Basically I do see where you are coming from but I think that Kathy being gone is more than her just leaving. Something else has happened to her.
DeleteI feel like if Kathy really loved him she would have stayed with him knowing what he is going through by him losing the election, By her leaving it made him feel like his Dad all over again i feel like by dealing with the loss of Kathy the same way he did with his father. Maybe she told him she was gonna leave and he killed her cause he didn't want her to leave.
DeleteI think that hypothesis is definitely a strong possibility but I don’t think that I would agree with the way she goes about leaving.
DeleteI feel like I’m closest with John because in the story he starts to struggle very badly with his flashbacks/PTSD. I’ve heard stories and seen movies where they describe the effects of it. Therefore i feel like i can relate to his well being better than any other character cause i know what John is going through isn’t easy. Nobody really tries to help cause he super secretive so he can’t get help which is common cause some people don’t wanna believe they have a problem.
ReplyDeleteI’m having trouble trying to figure out who Kathy really is as a person we know John was kinda obsessed with her by stalking her, But why would she eventually get with someone who used to stalk her? The story says she is super quiet and doesn’t really talk about stuff with people which makes me think Did Kathy plan to go missing to frame John and make everything look like he did? Or did John kill Kathy can’t really tell at this point.
I feel like the suspense of what happened to Kathy keeps me from closing the book because i wanna know weather John was possibly for this or if he wasn’t. Also by focusing in the text i can get create text evidence to support my claims.
I really haven’t came to a conclusion about the characterization of the characters because it’s still pretty early in the book to decide all of their personalities could change in just a page or 2
I don't think Kathy knew he had been stalking her. At least, not for a while. She has said things like, "You know, maybe I'm way off, but I get this creepy feeling. Like you're always there. Always worming around inside of me" (72). She has the gut feeling, but I disagree that she knew he was stalking her but agree that she wouldn't have married him if she had known for sure.
DeleteI don't know if I agree with that Kailey, I think that Kathy was just dropping hints, and trying to get John to realize he is freaking her out. The first thing Kathy said to John when he returned from war, was "sorry I was out" and that really sets the tone as if she knew he was waiting for her somewhere and as if he was waiting for the perfect moment to see her.
DeleteAt this point in the book, while I don’t feel any of the characters are super relatable to myself, the one I could probably relate most to is Kathy Wade. Ever since the beginning, Kathy has been a very mysterious and vague person. The author has never really described much about her personality simply because then it makes it that much more difficult as a reader to figure out the whole mystery of this book. Even the other characters in the book don’t seem to truly know her. I just feel as though I can relate to her on this level because sometimes I think I can give off a more confusing vibe and people aren’t typically able to understand my personality that well, just like Kathy.
ReplyDeleteI personally feel like I don't identify with anyone in the novel specifically. John is very hard to Identify with because he has had so many different life experiences then I have. These life experiences are what makes John the way he is and do the things he does. He does so many things that I consider very strange almost to a point where I would consider him mentally handicapped. For example O’Brien states “At one point in the night he found himself completely submerged in the lake”(O'Brien 51). John walked off in the middle of the night and just walked into the lake. This influences the reader by leading the reader to question John's sanity. So is John insane? That's the question that the reader should look for the answer to later in the text.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it is very hard to identify with any of the characters in the novel and that they are all very different. I also agree that the different experiences that John has had has led him to become the person he is now. The experiences he has had definitely have had an impact on him and his mental health although I don't I would consider him mentally handicapped.
DeleteSo far in this book I don't closely relate to either John or Kathy. They are both very confusing and unique characters that it is hard to relate to them. On one hand, John is dealing with his mental struggles from losing his dad and from the war and the effect they are having on his life. On the other hand, Kathy is having to deal with John and his problems while still living in the same, isolated way she likes to. John is a very confusing character to understand because of the ways he deals with his problems. For example when talking about what he did in the war he said "he tricked himself it hadn't happened the way it happened. He pretended he wasn't responsible; he pretended he couldn't have done it and therefore he hadn't" (O'Brien 68). This shows that John has a hard time dealing with his past and can't accept what hes done. I feel like Johns personality is the reason why Kathy is gone. I think that it was his personality that drove her away from him. I think that this will influence my reading because now i'm going to have to pay more attention to John and the reasons why he does what he does.
ReplyDeleteI agree Johns mental state is not good so it is very hard to relate to him because of how different he is.
DeleteWhy do you think it was John's personality that drove her away from him? Yes, John has done some weird things like spy on her, but from what I've read they have liked each others personality. The book says: "They'dance until they couldn't dance anymore, and then they'd sit in one of those dark booths and play a came called Dare." (Tim O'Brien.) The game they would play really opened up their relationship, and they would explore opportunities between each other. So I do not think it is John's personality that drove her away from him.
DeleteI personally would have to say I connect to John fairly well. The fact that he had such a big dream that he worked so hard for, is something I also have as well. John knew that if someone works really dang hard for something, eventually sooner or later they will get the paid off, but for John it did not end up that way. I have a dream to start or manage my own business someday, I want to make it big, but I understand that life does not always let the people who deserve it, win. I also feel connected to John in the way that he truly does care about Kathy, she means so much to him, even though he goes to lengths like spying on her to show that. One day before Kathy had left, John expressed his love for Kathy in a neat way, the book says: “With a ballpoint pen, he wrote on the instep of her tennis shoe: John + Kath. He drew a heart around these words and tied the shoe to her foot.” (Tim O’ Brien 60.) That right there tells me how much John really cares about Kathy and how much he loves to show it. The author adds this little piece in the story to really confuse the readers, because so far we have been lead to believe John is this crazy creepy guy, but I am starting to realize how much he really cares for her and everything he has ever done, was to make sure he did not lose her. That leads me to predict that in the end, I think John is going to find her, alive, and he is going to realize how much being in the moment with her means to him, and that the best things in life are not an act. That’s why I feel I connect with John, for he has such a strong love for Kathy, and I know I will sometimes go to lengths to make sure I do not lose the people I love. So do you guys think that John may just seem a little crazy, when in the end all he has ever tried to do was not lose Kathy?
ReplyDeleteI agree that John cares for Kathy a lot and that he has worked hard for what he has wanted. I also feel like because of the hard work that John has put in, it might have taken away time he could've been with Kathy and therefore made an impact on their relationship.
DeleteI find it easier to identify with John because his personality, thoughts, and beliefs are very vividly described, both directly and indirectly. In addition, I understand how it feels to want to keep some things secret to everyone but yourself and the desire to know things that are not told to you. However, John is very extreme in these beliefs and even wants to keep some things secret from himself by denying and suppressing memories of his past. I find it hard to relate to Kathy because I don't have experience being in a poor relationship with someone close to me, and it is hard to understand her beliefs because the actions that led to her disappearance are unknown.
ReplyDelete